Lemaster.T.2553_6.30.2025_Transcript

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0:11
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Okay, hi, could you state your name, age, association with the GWS department at UW-Madison, and how long you've been here.

0:20
Tracy Lemaster: Hi, I'm Tracy Lemaster. I'm 45 years old. I've been with the GWS department for 15 years in various capacities. I started as a TA 15 years ago, finished my PhD in 2012. And had lectured for about a decade after that. During that lectureship, I also served some other supportive positions in GWS, like, doing general studies library liaison, outreach program, manager for some outreach projects that intersected with GWS. And, just recently, I picked up in administrative support here in the department. So, a variety of positions and over a decade exposure. Do you need me to say it again? Okay, we're good.

1:14
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Thank you. First up, what do you remember most vividly about the department during your early involvement?

1:21
Trace Lemaster: During early involvement? That was a while ago, as I stated. So, I would say something I remember most vividly, as the term is used, is working under Susan Stanford Friedman. She was my mentor, she helped professionalize me, I vividly remember her mentorship. Her being sort of the face of the department for me in many ways, because my doctorate's in English, and then my doctoral minor was in gender and women's studies. So she was my connection across both of those departments, so I spent a lot of time vividly with her. And just the wonderful impression I got of our program and research and fellow colleagues of hers, etc. So, I think that that was my most vivid memory, is professionalizing under Susan.

2:08
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: What did it feel like to be part of an emerging, but by then, I think, I think sort of an established field of, and interacting with gender and women's studies? And were there any professional or academic risks?

2:22
Trace Lemaster: Well, it felt great, because it felt essential. Mainly because that is where my research lay is in this intersection of GWS, so it was just simply impossible not to feel at home and that that was an essential connection for me. I'm sure there were academic risks. As an English doctorate, usually people in the field organize their research or their dissertation, if you will, around a historical literary tradition, like they might just do American literature, and their project is just on American literature. Or they might organize it just on British literature. Rather, I organized my dissertation around a question in gender theory. Which necessarily crossed different literary traditions, and thus somewhat limited my professional prospects because I'm not necessarily sellable as just an Americanist, or just a British scholar. So, you know, there was a risk in terms of the way that the way that the fields organize their scholarship. But not so much a risk as that's simply what I needed to…research the kind of work that I needed to do.

3:31
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: To that end, what did interdisciplinary mean during your time here, and -- so, in your education -- and how has it been implemented?

3:41
Tracy Lemaster: I had a highly interdisciplinary research background. For example, my dissertation, I was uniting research in, like, neurology in girlhood studies and psychology and sociology, all in girlhood studies to the field of literary studies at the time, which was sort of a new partnership, and that was, what did it mean to me, was your question? I mean, it, again, it was really the only way I could get sort of the research answers that I needed. So, interdisciplinarity was essential to my research program and my scholarship and my publications thereafter. And, through the identity of GWS, it seemed to be, like, the primary avenue for that kind of interdisciplinary dialogue.

4:28
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: And how has that reflected in your teaching?

4:32
Tracy Lemaster: Oh, certainly is reflected in my teaching. I've taught a particular seminar, I think, like, 6 or 7 years straight, both in person and online, given COVID. And that syllabi, you know, I've worked really hard to reflect that interdisciplinary background to engage students in new modes of thinking and new modes of writing for, because it's a cross-listed English course, that, you know, really expanded the, you know, expanded the scope of what they would otherwise, outside of GWS, you know, have a more limited scope of research.

5:15
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: I want to talk about the institutionalization of GWS at UW-Madison, and I was wondering what were the main conversations and debates unfolding within the department during you time here? And how did those conversations change across the 15 years?

5:33
Tracy Lemaster: Sure. Some of the, well, one of the early conversations or debates, is that I remember when we weren't a department, I remember back when we were a program in Ingraham Hall, and we were discussing, I wasn't, I was just a PhD student then, or just a recent graduate. But, they were discussing the name. The title of the department, the forthcoming department. And that title could have had, you know, just been Women's Studies, could have been Gender and Women's Studies, could have been Gender, Wexuality, and Women's Studies, could have been this particular order. So that was definitely an early conversation slash dialogue that obviously was imbued with lots of ideological implications about what exactly does Women's Studies do, you know, how, what sort of essentializing core are we going to have or not have? So, that was an early debate.  I remember it really coming to a head, actually. Well, not necessarily coming to a head, but being very public, something that would normally be, you know, behind the scenes, done through admin. And their conversations became quite public in a conference. I don't know if it was a keynote or a talk given by, again, Susan Friedman, where she, I don't want to say in any way was making an argument about the name of the department, but was making an argument about the diversification of the field. And said something to the effect of that, you know, she felt there was real value in the term women, as an organizing category, and she made this, I think at the time, you know, brave, but also controversial narrative coming from her own experience, and saying, like, one of the most powerful times that she had felt like a woman was when she gave birth. And, that was, you know, again, very candid of her to say, but also limiting, you know, in its implications to others working in the field of gender as a more expansive category. And then she was countered by, wasn't countered, but didn't, thereafter, Julie Daucci spoke and gave her position about the diversification of gender and the lack of cohesion of the term women as a category, and I just, that's one of the times that what was happening in the department, with, you know, decisions made by admin behind closed doors, really, you know, came out into the public sphere as something that was a dynamic area for conversation and discourse, and expansion.

7:58
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: What do the debates say about governance in the department here?

8:03
Tracy Lemaster: About governance in the department? Well, that governance was very much, to me, behind closed doors, so I wasn't part and partial to that. But I think it said, it speaks to the dynamic diversity of opinion that can occur across governance, and that is needed, frankly, across governance to reach the kind of important decisions, like titling a department. Like, what majors we're going to have, how many we're going to have, what courses we're going to have, all these things. So that diversity of opinion, you know, whether it's contentious or not is, you know, productive tension.

8:42
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: There's that diversity, and there's another kind of diversity that often women's studies and gender and women's studies programs and departments across the country have attracted criticism that is, perhaps, still white-centric. So, to that end, I wanted to ask, has the department, the program at that time, and the department now, been successful in becoming diverse over time, and how did those efforts come about, and how did those evolve?

9:07
Tracy Lemaster: My goodness, the term success is the dubious one. I mean, we are in Madison, Wisconsin, which is primarily a white, we are in a, you know, primarily white institution, so I feel that gender studies has worked very hard to actually have the other definition of diversity, physical bodies, what physical people do we see in this department? You know, I feel that we're successful in, you know, the colleagues that I work with now. Would I always work, you know, encourage more diversification, of course. Am I a white cisgender woman who has taught African American literary studies? Yes. Is that problematic? Yes. So, this is a complicated question coming from my position as someone who, like I mentioned, is white cisgender. And works in areas where I don't represent the demographic I serve, and that I need colleagues there to collaborate with, consult with, to expand my own positionality and teaching, in that example. And also, just to have the robustness of the theory and philosophy that we're engaging actually be reflected in the people that we're around. So, yes, successful. But also room to grow.

10:32
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: How do you view the evolution of the women's studies program being seen as infiltrators in the university because of its history, to now being an established department that offers a terminal degree? They are a terminal degree rewarding department now with the PhD program. How do you view that evolution?

10:50
Tracy Lemaster: Infiltrators or disruptors is the new term. That's the, like, you know, millennial term, and that's supposed to be a good thing. To now being institutionalized, and, like, that necessarily can, like, defang some of the, you know, work, it can slow down some of the truly progressive work, because we're now mired in, you know, policy as an established this, and established that. So it can sometimes slow down processes, it can sometimes, I don't know how to use the term, defang, but it can, you know, it can sometimes make us counter the boldness of the things we want to achieve through the, you know, institutional apparatuses that we have now that we're accepted into, we don't want to, you know, shake or undermine that acceptance. But we also want to push parameters. It's a hard balancing act, I would imagine, for admin.

11:50
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Can I ask, what are we pushing towards? Like, what is the goal of a GWS education in your view?

11:56
Tracy Lemaster: A goal of a GWS education is to create a scholar, or community member, or whatever, that can expand what field they go into with this unique, important, necessary perspective, particularly in our political climate today. So the goal would be employment. The goal would be, you know, robust engagement of that scholar, whatever their employment is. And just the continued production of that.

12:31
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: To that end, one thing that the department's known for is its teaching, and its popular undergraduate courses. How did the scope and content of some of these popular 100-level courses change over the decades, and can you speak to its success, specifically for undergrad students? Why do you think that is?

12:50
Tracy Lemaster: I don't know necessarily how the scope has changed. I mean, the last time I had exposure to a 100 course was when I was a TA in it, and then I, I think that I, like, you know, did some training there later. But, I, so I can't speak to how it's being taught today versus earlier. A goal I remember, you know, in discussion of curriculum development, would be, like, how much do we have to implement a history of GWS, or history of women's movements in order to get to the, where we're at now? Can't we just start where we're at now, because there's the implication of first wave, second wave, within third wave, within post-feminism, etc. Like, to how rooted in a timeline do we need to be, and how important is this historical timeline for students? Or can we just begin where we're at and work from there, rather than having the student, some felt, you know, bogged down by that history, others felt, you know, that that history really exposes the fissures and failures sometimes of GWS. So that's the most I can think of in terms of the changing of English 100. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, GWS100, as I haven't seen it forever.

14:03
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: What has it meant for you first to study and now teach GWS?

14:09
Tracy Lemaster: Well, I've just stopped teaching GWS last semester as I'm leaning fully into administrative work. What has it meant to me? It's a very broad question. I mean, back when I began, it meant furthering scholarship. And having critical engagement with students and their unique ideas and perspectives, which evolve every year and reflect dialogically with the way I create curriculums and, you know, that active partnership between student and professor that is so integral. That was… maybe the center of my, you know, the middle period, if you will, of my teaching. Now, what does it mean to be someone who has just recently completed teaching? I'm a parent now, and everything seems to go through that lens, and as I teach, I'm also thinking about, you know, what will my kids see in this classroom in the future? How can I best shape a classroom? That I would want to see in the future, um, what pedagogical tactics I think work or don't work with students now versus then, and um, you know, I hope that my sons, I know my sons, will be students in GWS in 10 years or less, and what is the, you know, how can I best, as an instructor, further that?

15:31
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Speaking of students, you've seen a number of students over the years, I assume. How has the student body evolved over time, in your opinion? Not the ones who come to GWS.

15:46
Tracy Lemaster: The student body. That could go many directions. I mean that, like, the physical students, I've seen more diversity in my classroom. The positionality of students. I feel now that students feel more confident to speak to their truths, because they have language that the very field has helped furnish, provide for them, so I see a more confidence in opinion, more diversity of opinion, more diversity of bodies. And I just, it's a really, really dynamic time to be teaching in a classroom.

16:25
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Why is that?

16:27
Tracy Lemaster: Just because I feel like students now have the language. I'm someone who works in, you know, again, in English, and so language, I feel, is, like, so important, and the rhetoric and the terms of the field that they're using, that they're reinventing, that they're getting rid of this, this, having these kinds of, in a class that's necessarily dialogic is important, so for them to feel empowered to speak to their position and their opinion on theory and their opinion on works is important, and just to have that language, and to, you know, really problematize that language is important. So I think that that has really made the students, the classroom, like, more dynamic, I think.

17:04
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Can you speak on challenges, either from an academic or an administrative perspective that the department has faced or continues to face today?

17:14
Tracy Lemaster: Challenges? It continues to face political challenges. In particular now, with current, you know, funding cuts and all this that I'm sure you've heard a bunch about. Everybody is aware of. Resistance to DEI. I think students in particular are becoming, you know, concerned or uneasy about the validity and the cohesion of their degrees, and, you know, that's something that we just have to work to reassure them that we've been around for, as you know, 50 years, and we will continue to be around for 50 more years. It's just that these are, these things ebb and flow as the politics of the, you know, of our environment. And that, you know, that there's, there's gonna be a great future.

18:00
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: I want to speak to that future, I was hoping you would speak to that future. If you were to see, this is the 50th, but let's say, its 60th, 75th, then its 100th anniversary.

18:09
Tracy Lemaster: Oh my gosh, what do I want to see for it? I want to… I'm sorry? You were about to talk? Okay. What I want to see is expansion. And, you know, critical reflection. All the things that we need to be doing, continually, looking forward, while also looking back. You know, more specializations. More critical fields and terminologies and sub-specializations. These are the kinds of things that really make it, like, robust. And so, you know, in 100 years, I can't imagine, but, um… you know, I hope that there's always a space. You know, for students to feel welcome, for faculty to feel engaged and collaborative, for UW-Madison to, you know, feel community-driven. And, um, and community engaged, which is essential. I can hope all those things continue and expand.

19:05
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: Now that you're part of that administration, what do you hope people remember about the department's admin support and community when they think back to this experience?

19:14
Tracy Lemaster: I hope that, I feel like sometimes when you're an admin support, what you want to ultimately do is have, is to be invisible. I think that you want things to go smoothly. I would hope that those would look back at administration and administrative support and be like, you know, things went, operations went really well, communications went really well. You know, I had complete clarity. I felt like I had a voice. I felt like, you know, staff were people that I was able to work with, or, if needed. And, and that ran things smoothly.

19:50
Edwin Elizabeth Thomas: All right. Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you'd like to speak to?

19:57
Tracy Lemaster: I think that's it.